First, no one has to commit to a four month trip, or to any particular duration. People may come and go to and from Many Oaks as they like. Come for a week, if you like, and learn how to make shelter and fire. Or stay. All very open and freewheeling. (though we wouldn't mind a heads-up if you plan to come for a particular period). Also, no money is involved, though the land in question is in a bit of a financial pickle and donations and/or new part-owners are welcome.
Second, the Skills and Knowledge section over there on the right side of the screen is by no means intended to be a complete manual on wild living and should not be taken that way. It is just a convenient way of organizing some posts into categories. Many other fine sites have a broad compendium of knowledge and those are the place to go to learn what you can by reading.
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
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I find that people who do this sort of thing are running away from somebody or something, what are you running away from? NightWing.
ReplyDeleteDestroying Angel, you freakin' Sicko! I just visted your "facebook" site! ([url]http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=56158211355&ref=mf[/url]) & found my post that you had to have so bad! Man you need professional help! God help anybody stupid enough to join up with you! Sarge.
ReplyDeleteFirst, NightWing, I can only speak for myself, but I'd like to make it clear I'm not running away from anything but looking for something better. I think that's an important distinction.
ReplyDeleteSecond, Sarge, sorry about that; the feed from the blog automatically copies to the facebook page but for some reason doesn't get removed from facebook even after we remove it from the blog. Working on it...
Sarge, it's taken care of.
ReplyDeletePeace
Max
Looks like my comment didn't make it so I'll try again. Thanks Max, & believe it or not I do wish you the best of luck, although I don't hold out much hope for your success. Sarge.
ReplyDeleteSarge, just so you know - I had nothing to do with your comment posting onto facebook and didn't know about it until Crashdive notified me about it last week, at which time I did try to have it removed, though was unable to do so, as I did not create that facebook group. I did ask Max if he'd do it, but he must not have known just how much of a crisis it would create for you. My apologies.
ReplyDeleteActually I'm not at all angry, I really thought it was funny, including you changing your e-mail address by using profanity to: "blowitoutyourasssarge@gmail.com" Here's the irony, all of this could have been avoided if you simply asked 1st. I would have only required that my WHOLE post with ALL the questions I'd asked were posted. they were put together for a reason. Reading through all the material here, including some posts by your "fans", I see some future problems cropping up. But then, this is your mission & I'm not here to take it down. If you'd have been as cool-headed on the W.S. Forum as your displaying here you could have gotten a wealth of info to help launch this thing. We have many members actually "living the dream" that you're trying to do. Maybe not on the same "spiritual" path, but living off the grid. Every day I have to deal with people I'd rather not be around; if I lose my cool I lose the ability to effectively communicate.
ReplyDeleteSARGE.
cool - glad we're moving to more civil terrain, and I'm not mad anymore either. I've actually learned quite a bit from this bizarre encounter. Sorry I didn't ask first to use your words, but I really did think I was being respectful, and that IS a continuous concern of mine. I'm not the type of person who is the least bit disrespectful of other people's property, I just failed to see that it was a property issue at all. I'll consider myself lucky if I get the chance to see a little bit of why some of the folks on the WS forum like you so much.
ReplyDeleteTill then,
Joe
Destroying Angel writes: "I'll consider myself lucky if I get the chance to see a little bit of why some of the folks on the WS forum like you so much."
ReplyDeletewhen you figure that out, let me know. I speak my mind without stuttering, & from those who can learn what they can from it, they benifit. Those that refuse fustrate me to no end. TBWN are a good case in point. 2 guys from Canada who wanted to outdo the Discovery Channel's "Survivor" type programs by going out into the Manitoba Wilderness in late October with nothing more than their knives & the clothes on their backs. We tried to talk sense to them but they refused to listen. They almost died on the attempt and came home, wet, hungry, tired, & a bit hypothermic. All's they had to do was sliten to the group, but no, they didn't like our responses because it "burst their bubble." (shrugs) On their own heads be it. SARGE
Sarge - I'm beginning to "figure it out"... I appreciate your candor. I don't doubt that there is much that one can learn from you if he's willing to suffer his ego - something I still struggle with, to be sure. I get caught up in semantics, as I'm a very literal person. I'm of the mind that if people say what they mean in a language that we all agree upon, then we won't have to spend valuable time interpretting one another. It gets tricky, though, as we each feel that we're using words and phrases "the right way."
ReplyDeleteIn any case, that's an interesting story that you relate. Certainly if I wanted to embark on an excursion like that I would make sure to have a LOT of experience under my belt! I, not having nearly as much experience, am not setting out on such a risky journey. We will be well within our limits physically, though I do wonder how we'll fare psychologically. That is to say, we fully intend to supplememnt our limited experience with the necessary materials, i.e. we will be within walking distance of transportation that can, if absolutely necessary, take us to where we can get more food or other supplies. I can only speak for myself, but I think the unwritten goal that lies behind this endeavor is to come to a greater understanding of ourselves and our place in the natural world. I have no desire to prove anything to myself or the rest of the world. I only wish to offer myself more completely to the voice that persistently whispers to me, more often than not unintelligibly. I feel that in order to find greater faith within (which I desperately yearn for) I must move with greater faith in the outer world, and this requires a courage to act in ways that most feel to be nonsensical, to follow a light which so few others see, perhaps because it's not for them, but only for me... I imagine this is where you begin to wonder if I'm some sort of cultist, but honestly, I'm just struggling to put to words something which is much more visceral than intellectual...
I'm glad for the chance to try and explain myself for as long as you're interested. It's a story I think somewhere there are words for, and I have a sneaking suspicion it's not only "my" story. Many are seeking a better way, and I don't claim to have it, but I'm willing to risk my unbearable comfort zone to find it...
best wishes,
I was NOT inferring that you were some kind of cult but rather pointing out some obvious problems that could arise from not doing background checks. I fully understand what you are trying to do & I do NOT lump you into the same category as the aforementioned group in the area of stupidity. I also understand that you're trying, in your own way, to "re-invent society." That in itself seems problematic to me; here's why. You will still be subject to Federal, State, & local laws which put you guys in a precarious position since you've obviously started this Blog to obtain your goals; this puts both you & Max in a a "leadership" position weather that was your aim or not; least-ways that's the way a jury could see it. On your team you should have a lawyer, at least one medical person, and Security personel to cover all bases. (You don't know WHO could be joining you.) Just my 2 cents. SARGE.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the advice, Sarge. Right now it's not looking like we're going to be able to pick and choose who joins us. People aren't exactly beating down our doors for the chance to give up their couches and LCD t.v.s....
ReplyDeleteI am taking Wilderness First Responder training just before we go, and Max has recently done CPR training (perhaps more, but that's all I'm sure of)
What sort of legality issues would you be concerned about in our position? I am thinking anyone who participates will have to sign a waiver, similar to those that other wilderness education schools use.
I'm not, and I'm pretty sure Max is not, trying to re-invent society. If I hope to re-invent anything it's the way that I identify with certain negative and disempowering mind sets and fail to identify with certain other creative and empowered ways of perceiving myself and my relationship with others, including the myriad of life forms that populate this precious planet.
Though it is my opinion that society is by and large on a path of destruction and suffering, I don't have the first clue how to fix it. This is a very personal journey, though I hope to be walking with others that are moving in the same general direction. With luck the further we go we will begin to hear more and more clearly the subtler communications of Nature. From there I may begin to formulate a creative solution to the unavoidable truth of my own part in "the problem." I still live in a glass house, and as long as that remains true you won't hear me telling anyone about "the right way."
Oops, my bad, I must have misunderstood the blog title: "Re-invent". My thoughts are that you haven't done enough research on what the law might call "legal responsibility". Waivers are only good up to a certain point, but they can't over-ride the law. Liability is still liability. My problem is that I've seen people lose big $$ in civil suits when they were in the right, but the judge &/or jury didn't see it that way. Remember the lady that won a million dollars from McDonalds because she was clumsy & spilled hot coffee on herself? If it were up to me I'd form a group of six or so "like-minded" people that I knew very well & trusted completely. I wouldn't allow any strangers in until I knew I could control any situation that might arise. Sounds to me like you & Max are pretty much on the same wave-length, so that's two...I'll leave the rest to you.
ReplyDeletere-invent, yes, but not "re-invent civilization".... not yet, anyway, hahaha, Baby steps. If you think you understand where Max and I are coming from, please feel free to suggest other "safe" members that you might know of...
ReplyDeleteYeah, I remember the wacky McDonald's lady. Sad state of affairs we're in, eh? Personal responsibility is becoming more antiqauted by the day, and the lawyers are laughing all the way to the bank. More and more it's a government of the government, for the government, by the government....
Hi All,
ReplyDeleteMax, I followed your 'trail' here from a forum you've just become a member. :¬)
I'm Misko, and am a member of that forum too.
Anyway, I read your intro, then came here and checked out this blog a bit. Very interesting, and inspiring. I live - with my partner/wife and son - in what is generally known as the province of quebec.
In 1992 I'd had way past enough of this shitivilization and headed out west. I'd heard of a place in Manitoba where a group - a few Anishinabe (mostly) families and individuals - were living together as a community. I wasn't sure when I left - from south shore of
Montreal with my younger brother, on bicycles with a cat in a basket attached to the handles of my bike - if we were even gonna be accepted into the community in question. But I had decided that if not, I would just keep going and head to B.C. and live out there in the forest.
It was the end of april when we left, so I figured we'd have time to prepare for winter if we had to go in the bush.
It turned out that we were accepted and stayed there almost two years. Except for a very brief period in the end of summer 93 when we left for B.C., for the bush because we wanted to live wild and without anything to do with this dominant society.
Well, we found out when we got there that what looked wild on the map, was in reality pretty different: choppers flying over about every ten-fifteen minutes, clearcuts, and so on...
So we headed back to the camp (community in Manitoba) trying not to hide our tails between our legs, ha!
We left the camp around nov-dec 93 and came back to our birth place, more or less. The following few years, I prepared for my departure for the bush each spring...But each time something else worth staying held me back in civilization. Then I decided to try something different and looked for a place to rent either in the woods or at least very close by so I could perfect my survival skills and all. I found a place for rent...and married the owner :¬)
We now have a none year old son. And now, after many different experiences at trying to build community without much success, we're now just simply, without pushing, kinda lookin out for likeminded people, people with whom we have affinities. I figure we - people with affinities of the type you describe here in your blog - can organize and figure out ways to provide for our everyday necessities so that as this civilization collapses we have our own alternatives, that WE - the people - control. And not controled by a hierararchal clique of psychopaths.
And now I'll try finish this message before it becomes a 400 page biography (sorry 'bout that).
My wife wakes up and tells me about a dream she just had - and she was not aware of the fact I had just read your blog and all - where we (her, our son and I) had put together, with other people, a place where people could live, experiment, come and learn about living...well, very similar to your project.
Don't ask me where I'm going with this though.
I guess we'll see.
Here's my blog:
http://kinoodoodaym.blogspot.com/
e-mail: misko.kinoo@yahoo.ca
Take care
-Misko
Misko! Thanks for sharing some of your story and providing a link to your amazing blog (though I don't read french, unfortunately :(
ReplyDeleteI am looking forward to picking through the parts that are intellible to me - maybe Max can help me with the rest (do all canadians know french? hahaha) Already found a wealth of great links there.
With luck we will get to meet and share stories in person soon.
Best wishes to you, your wife, and the little one : )
Joe
Joe, most of us know some French... I'm almost borderline conversational but find online translators useful for reading blogs. Check out http://www.google.com/language_tools and put the URL in the Translate Web Page box
ReplyDeleteHi All,
ReplyDeleteDestroying Angel, Max,
I'm looking forward to reading how your adventure develops. And who knows, perhaps we might one day meet in person.
Best
-Misko