Hunting and Gathering Perspectives PART 1

Joe Krein wrote at 7:50pm on January 28th, 2009 am very intrigued by the idea of rewilding - wondering why it's so hard to get people to try it at least.... im part owner of a 550 acre parcel in northern ny where we could begin a community of rewilders - this is my dream, but for lack of others willing to go down that road together the property may wind up being sold right out from under me...would love to hear your thoughts, suggestions, even laughter would be an improvement to the vacuous nothing in non-response that im used to.

best wishes,Joe
hope4thepride@gmail.com

(Anonymous) wrote at 12:56pm on January 29th, 2009
I am not too familiar with the term rewilding aside from wildlife conservation, though as far as wiki pedia tells it there is a movement to overcome human domestication. For all intents and purposes I am not convinced by the modern world's claim to have brought humans anywhere but to a rapidly darkening future. The belief that science will save us in unfounded and historically inaccurate. This leaves me with a drive to make different choices than the average American. However, trying to run this school in the modern world without the use of modern tools would be nigh impossible and not serve the needs of my students. For example, this conversation here. It is very hard for me to damn this culture being so immersed in it.Ultimately, I am unconvinced that humans will en mass decide to move back to the land, nor could the land support it with such a population density. This leaves me with the feeling that there are more productive roles I can play in this world than falling off the map


You wrote 21 hours ago
Hey (anonymous), thanks for responding to my post about rewilding. Like to address a couple of your points... you said, "However, trying to run this school in the modern world without the use of modern tools would be nigh impossible and not serve the needs of my students. For example, this conversation here. It is very hard for me to damn this culture being so immersed in it." I don't want to damn this culture either, but it seems if we're to get back on course we're going to have to leave a thing or two behind. Doesn't mean no more internet or modern communications, but we probably can't all have everything we've gotten so used to...you went on, "Ultimately, I am unconvinced that humans will en mass decide to move back to the land, nor could the land support it with such a population density." This remains a peculiar notion to me. How is it that the earth is able to sustain our present number of people that are utilizing mostly unproductive, and often counterproductive, methods, yet if we switched to a more productive and sustainable lifestyle there'd have to be massive human die off? I've heard this notion many times, but I'm having trouble with the logic....And you concluded, "This leaves me with the feeling that there are more productive roles I can play in this world than falling off the map" This is the real point which I guess I failed to make. I don't intend to, nor do I suggest anyone else should "fall off the map". I imagine something more like a big bold star on the map that says. "Hey! We're over here!" I'm really just continuing an old struggle here, wondering why there are so few, if any, communities of trackers that are living the skills day in and day out, and further, helping others to do the same. It seems to me that the reason our ancestors were able to develop their skills and awareness to such high levels is because they were living them 24/7. What does that leave for the rare individuals in our society that even care enough to seek out this precious wisdom before it is lost? Maybe they'll be able to learn some wonderful things well enough to pass them on, but ultimately they'll only be receptacles of knowledge that they'll probably take to the grave with them before finding someone else that has the time and desire to learn what they know, if they even have the time and desire to teach it. Which still says nothing about furthering the wisdom, expanding on it, and keeping it ALIVE. Is there any alternative for those who wish to keep it alive than to live it? And is there a way to truly live it part time, a couple weeks out of the year?Please trust that I am not seeking conflict. You are doing awesome work and I am inspired by your example and humbled to call you friend. Just feelin pretty alone, still, and wondering if I'll ever have my people around me for more than the occasional awesome week(end)....blessed be,Joe


(Anonymous) wrote10 hours ago
Joe,You make some good points. First off, I do want to damn this culture, I just can't without being a hypocrite. Just so you know where I am coming from. In my experience of primitive living which is weeks here and there and months of living and working in the forest but not full abo, it is pretty much full time.I found great difficulty moving between the cultures, forest culture-the rythms, customs and necessities of the natural world, and the modern world. This is nothing new, but worth noting, because moving seamlessly between the two is something I am working on but still have to get better at. Really I guess I am working on holding my own rhythm no matter where I am.I like your point about the die offs, however, if you look at the population densities (which are estimates) of prehistory, even the highest and considered wildest estimates are still far far below the current human population densities and that was with a very healthy and intact ecosystem. If you think that primitive living is more efficient at supporting massive population than modern industrial farming you have got some research to do...I fear deeply a possibility of a day when the truck suddenly stop running and everyone who owns a gun goes out to the woods to get food for their starving family. It would be a massive holocaust of animals...and the land could not support it. The fact of the matter is that we are all living in America, rich and fat with "healthy" ecosystems around us because other landscapes in far away countries are being raped and pillaged. The fact that we even have time for this discussion or to study skills that are not imminent to our immediate survival is a sign of the wealth and luxury that underlies our culture. Not to just rant, but the point for me is that I don't teach people just for the future or the past, but for their now. For the quality and experience of life that working the skills and living with the earth gives. Because of that I completely understand your desire to "live it" and the best times of my life have most certainly been working the skills and being with the earth.Everyone needs to decide for themselves what living it means. For me right now it includes way more time in front of the CPU than I like, but I am living it and pushing a new wall of skills, and finding new discomforts to seek understanding from.Finally, people don't know how to live together anymore, at least not without being knocked around a bit by the Earth, and also, people are scared shitless to leave the modern world. How many people can really imagine the idea that they could starve to death if they did not kill something with a weapon they made? Not too many...I think that you should keep the hope up, and keep talking to people. If you are serious about it you might try and start something up that would let more people know about you and what you want to do...like going to some advanced tracker school classes, primitive skills gathering, or something like that...Look forward to hearing more.I am also not seeking conflict, nor do I feel any, this is a worthy discussion and I like your questions.